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	<title>Comments for Calgary Skeptic's Society Blog</title>
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	<link>http://calgaryskeptics.com/blog</link>
	<description>Official Blog of the Calgary Skeptic's Society</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 01:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Raw Milk by Naomi</title>
		<link>http://calgaryskeptics.com/blog/2009/02/02/raw-milk/#comment-14715</link>
		<dc:creator>Naomi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 22:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calgaryskeptics.com/blog/?p=222#comment-14715</guid>
		<description>I hate to tell you this, but my husband, his four siblings, our neighbors and their seven kids, as well as many people in our surrounding area grew up with and still consume raw milk.  They washed their milk pails out with dish soap and never sterilized them; many can drink milk to this day with no trouble.  
We also know several people who can no longer tolerate milk; these people got milk directly from the tank on their registered, licensed DAIRY FARMS.  The milk on a dairy is stored in a tank at two degrees; it is agitated to keep it from separating and it is unpasteurized.  These people likely became intolerant to the sanitizing chemicals and ACID used to clean the pipes on a daily basis; NOT the milk.  
Science and research are all fine and dandy, but we need to speak with people who actually consume raw milk before taking sides.  
Besides, since when do science and real life agree anyway?  I read info about a health condition I had on the Government of Canada's website devoted to the topic.  This info terrified me; when I saw two local physicians about my fears, they both assured me that 'they don't see that in practice'.   
So much for 'science'.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate to tell you this, but my husband, his four siblings, our neighbors and their seven kids, as well as many people in our surrounding area grew up with and still consume raw milk.  They washed their milk pails out with dish soap and never sterilized them; many can drink milk to this day with no trouble.<br />
We also know several people who can no longer tolerate milk; these people got milk directly from the tank on their registered, licensed DAIRY FARMS.  The milk on a dairy is stored in a tank at two degrees; it is agitated to keep it from separating and it is unpasteurized.  These people likely became intolerant to the sanitizing chemicals and ACID used to clean the pipes on a daily basis; NOT the milk.<br />
Science and research are all fine and dandy, but we need to speak with people who actually consume raw milk before taking sides.<br />
Besides, since when do science and real life agree anyway?  I read info about a health condition I had on the Government of Canada&#8217;s website devoted to the topic.  This info terrified me; when I saw two local physicians about my fears, they both assured me that &#8216;they don&#8217;t see that in practice&#8217;.<br />
So much for &#8217;science&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Beware the Spinal Trap by Ubermoogle</title>
		<link>http://calgaryskeptics.com/blog/2009/07/29/beware-the-spinal-trap/#comment-11903</link>
		<dc:creator>Ubermoogle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 16:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calgaryskeptics.com/blog/?p=261#comment-11903</guid>
		<description>On his own website he promotes two types of vitalistic "healing" techniques. Psych-K and Reconnective Healing. Neither of these have any basis in reality-based medicine, and instead rely on some sort of innate force or universal power. 

As far as I can tell, Psych-K is just the same idea as "The Secret", just repackaged for a different audience. 

As for his other treatments, there is still the increased risk of blood clots and arterial tearing in cervical spinal manipulations. It's not a matter of being a good person and serving your community, it's using treatments that have been proven either ineffective, or outright harmful to your patients.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On his own website he promotes two types of vitalistic &#8220;healing&#8221; techniques. Psych-K and Reconnective Healing. Neither of these have any basis in reality-based medicine, and instead rely on some sort of innate force or universal power. </p>
<p>As far as I can tell, Psych-K is just the same idea as &#8220;The Secret&#8221;, just repackaged for a different audience. </p>
<p>As for his other treatments, there is still the increased risk of blood clots and arterial tearing in cervical spinal manipulations. It&#8217;s not a matter of being a good person and serving your community, it&#8217;s using treatments that have been proven either ineffective, or outright harmful to your patients.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Beware the Spinal Trap by toronto chiropractic</title>
		<link>http://calgaryskeptics.com/blog/2009/07/29/beware-the-spinal-trap/#comment-11874</link>
		<dc:creator>toronto chiropractic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 08:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calgaryskeptics.com/blog/?p=261#comment-11874</guid>
		<description>hard to believe. i never knew that there's a kind of treating people like that..here's  Dr. Mark Halpern  he's been serving his community with chiropractic care since his graduation from Canadian Memorial Chiropractic College in 1996.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hard to believe. i never knew that there&#8217;s a kind of treating people like that..here&#8217;s  Dr. Mark Halpern  he&#8217;s been serving his community with chiropractic care since his graduation from Canadian Memorial Chiropractic College in 1996.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Raw Milk by Sean</title>
		<link>http://calgaryskeptics.com/blog/2009/02/02/raw-milk/#comment-11588</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 17:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calgaryskeptics.com/blog/?p=222#comment-11588</guid>
		<description>Hi, thank you for your post. Lost of information, very good job. I just moved in and were looking for information like this. thanks again</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, thank you for your post. Lost of information, very good job. I just moved in and were looking for information like this. thanks again</p>
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		<title>Comment on CTV, homeopathy and H1N1 by Jeff</title>
		<link>http://calgaryskeptics.com/blog/2009/10/30/ctv-homeopathy-and-h1n1/#comment-10985</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calgaryskeptics.com/blog/?p=268#comment-10985</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Randy, for your very well constructed blog post, and the above response.  Well done, keep it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Randy, for your very well constructed blog post, and the above response.  Well done, keep it up.</p>
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		<title>Comment on CTV, homeopathy and H1N1 by Randy</title>
		<link>http://calgaryskeptics.com/blog/2009/10/30/ctv-homeopathy-and-h1n1/#comment-10684</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calgaryskeptics.com/blog/?p=268#comment-10684</guid>
		<description>Karen, I will not sugar coat this. To do so would be a grave disservice. You are a representative of those credulous people who are gravely lacking in critical thinking skills, which explains your ad hominem accusing me of having a closed mind. 

I do not care one wit for your anecdotes. As I said in the blog, the plural of 'anecdote' is NOT 'data'. If you really have a science background, you would understand this. 

You are right when you say that I can not prove that homeopathic remedies do not work. And it is totally IRRELEVANT, since the burden of proof lies with those claiming that homeopathy works!  If the healing power of homeopathy is as incredibe as you describe, it should be a very simple matter to demonstrate that it works. Have homeopaths done the requisite studies demonstrating efficacy? No. They have not done any of the work that would be required of any new therapeutic technique. Instead, supporters of homeopathy rely on anecdote and can't be bothered to properly show efficacy. If you really have a science background, you would understand this. 

Medicine is not just about what works. It is about what can be SHOWN to work, not about what we believe works. It is not up to the medical community to disprove homeopathy. Homeopathy does that all by itself by refusing to do any proper study on the matter. We maintain the null hypothesis (that is, that homeopathy has no effect) until there is good reason to accept the claim that homeopathy works. And homeopathy is spectaculary lacking in this regard. But, if you really have a science background, you would understand this.

All of the examples you give can be explained by placebo effect or happenstance where the problem goes away on its own but there is an unsubstantiated connection made with a homeopathic remedy. Who's to say that the toddler stopped screaming simply because she told the child that the unproven remedy she gave it would make the pain go away? The placebo effect is very powerful. To show efficacy, properly blinded and controlled studies are necessary showing dose response must be performed. If you really have a science background, you would understand this. And I'll say it again: the plural of 'anecdote' is NOT 'data'.

When discussing public health care policy, we do not implement programs which do not have science to back them up. Homeopathy has no science to back it up. Consider the disaster that would occur if instead of immunization (the success of which is unarguable), health care programs were implemented with claims having nothing better than anecdote in support, yet turn out to be no better than placebo. This is the height of irresponsibility and is probably criminal. Yet this is what homeopaths endorse. Homeopathy is an uncontrolled industry with unsubstantiated claims. If you really have a science background, you would understand this. 

Despite your ad hominem to the contrary, if the claims can be shown through tried-and-true scientific study - that is, multiple double-blinded, properly-controlled experimentation demonstrating a statistically-significant effect - I would accept them. So would the medical community. But when the best that supporters of homeopathy can muster is unverifiable success stories, such people set the bar for what is and is not good evidence far, FAR too low, particulary considering the consequences to public health. It is up to the homeopathy community to provide this evidence, not its detractors to provide evidence that it does not work. This is simply where the burden of proof lies. But if you really have a science background, you would understand this. 

I am indeed skeptical of homeopathic remedies. The anecdotes and outrageous claims (none of which are substantiated and many have been falsified already) do nothing to remove my skepticism. Some of the claims of homeopathy, such as water retaining some kind of 'memory' of the active ingredient, violate unbelievably well-substantiated rules of physics and chemistry. This doesn't dampen my skepticism either. But to accept homeopathy without good quality evidence and fall back on the old 'but you can't disprove my claim' logic fallacy shows that people such as you are so open-minded that their brains have spilt. 

But if you really have a science background, you would understand this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karen, I will not sugar coat this. To do so would be a grave disservice. You are a representative of those credulous people who are gravely lacking in critical thinking skills, which explains your ad hominem accusing me of having a closed mind. </p>
<p>I do not care one wit for your anecdotes. As I said in the blog, the plural of &#8216;anecdote&#8217; is NOT &#8216;data&#8217;. If you really have a science background, you would understand this. </p>
<p>You are right when you say that I can not prove that homeopathic remedies do not work. And it is totally IRRELEVANT, since the burden of proof lies with those claiming that homeopathy works!  If the healing power of homeopathy is as incredibe as you describe, it should be a very simple matter to demonstrate that it works. Have homeopaths done the requisite studies demonstrating efficacy? No. They have not done any of the work that would be required of any new therapeutic technique. Instead, supporters of homeopathy rely on anecdote and can&#8217;t be bothered to properly show efficacy. If you really have a science background, you would understand this. </p>
<p>Medicine is not just about what works. It is about what can be SHOWN to work, not about what we believe works. It is not up to the medical community to disprove homeopathy. Homeopathy does that all by itself by refusing to do any proper study on the matter. We maintain the null hypothesis (that is, that homeopathy has no effect) until there is good reason to accept the claim that homeopathy works. And homeopathy is spectaculary lacking in this regard. But, if you really have a science background, you would understand this.</p>
<p>All of the examples you give can be explained by placebo effect or happenstance where the problem goes away on its own but there is an unsubstantiated connection made with a homeopathic remedy. Who&#8217;s to say that the toddler stopped screaming simply because she told the child that the unproven remedy she gave it would make the pain go away? The placebo effect is very powerful. To show efficacy, properly blinded and controlled studies are necessary showing dose response must be performed. If you really have a science background, you would understand this. And I&#8217;ll say it again: the plural of &#8216;anecdote&#8217; is NOT &#8216;data&#8217;.</p>
<p>When discussing public health care policy, we do not implement programs which do not have science to back them up. Homeopathy has no science to back it up. Consider the disaster that would occur if instead of immunization (the success of which is unarguable), health care programs were implemented with claims having nothing better than anecdote in support, yet turn out to be no better than placebo. This is the height of irresponsibility and is probably criminal. Yet this is what homeopaths endorse. Homeopathy is an uncontrolled industry with unsubstantiated claims. If you really have a science background, you would understand this. </p>
<p>Despite your ad hominem to the contrary, if the claims can be shown through tried-and-true scientific study - that is, multiple double-blinded, properly-controlled experimentation demonstrating a statistically-significant effect - I would accept them. So would the medical community. But when the best that supporters of homeopathy can muster is unverifiable success stories, such people set the bar for what is and is not good evidence far, FAR too low, particulary considering the consequences to public health. It is up to the homeopathy community to provide this evidence, not its detractors to provide evidence that it does not work. This is simply where the burden of proof lies. But if you really have a science background, you would understand this. </p>
<p>I am indeed skeptical of homeopathic remedies. The anecdotes and outrageous claims (none of which are substantiated and many have been falsified already) do nothing to remove my skepticism. Some of the claims of homeopathy, such as water retaining some kind of &#8216;memory&#8217; of the active ingredient, violate unbelievably well-substantiated rules of physics and chemistry. This doesn&#8217;t dampen my skepticism either. But to accept homeopathy without good quality evidence and fall back on the old &#8216;but you can&#8217;t disprove my claim&#8217; logic fallacy shows that people such as you are so open-minded that their brains have spilt. </p>
<p>But if you really have a science background, you would understand this.</p>
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		<title>Comment on CTV, homeopathy and H1N1 by Karen</title>
		<link>http://calgaryskeptics.com/blog/2009/10/30/ctv-homeopathy-and-h1n1/#comment-10676</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calgaryskeptics.com/blog/?p=268#comment-10676</guid>
		<description>Well, lots of words about discrediting the worthiness of homeopathy.

I come from a science background. I encounter parents, adults and children who have attained incredible healing with homeopathy.

Children cannot manufacture the responses noted by family and caregivers, nor can animals. How to explain this?  For me, my personal knowledge gained by my personal experience gathered with the experiences of others leads me to the acknowledgement that homeopathy works - and profoundly. You won't find cautionary labels on a remedy(as long as your arm) warning about serious "side-effects" otherwise known as drug induced disease.

While the author of this diatribe against homeopathy notes that there is no proof that homeopathy works, I offer that nor can he prove it doesn't. For that I say first hand knowledge is always best.  Your belief is not required and skeptisism is both healthy and necessary.

 Appropriately chosen remedies simply work. Ask a mom whose toddler is screaming with an earache that is relieved within minutes of the remedy being given. There are numerous examples. All that is required is an open mind  which this gentleman does not posess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, lots of words about discrediting the worthiness of homeopathy.</p>
<p>I come from a science background. I encounter parents, adults and children who have attained incredible healing with homeopathy.</p>
<p>Children cannot manufacture the responses noted by family and caregivers, nor can animals. How to explain this?  For me, my personal knowledge gained by my personal experience gathered with the experiences of others leads me to the acknowledgement that homeopathy works - and profoundly. You won&#8217;t find cautionary labels on a remedy(as long as your arm) warning about serious &#8220;side-effects&#8221; otherwise known as drug induced disease.</p>
<p>While the author of this diatribe against homeopathy notes that there is no proof that homeopathy works, I offer that nor can he prove it doesn&#8217;t. For that I say first hand knowledge is always best.  Your belief is not required and skeptisism is both healthy and necessary.</p>
<p> Appropriately chosen remedies simply work. Ask a mom whose toddler is screaming with an earache that is relieved within minutes of the remedy being given. There are numerous examples. All that is required is an open mind  which this gentleman does not posess.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Beware the Spinal Trap by Ubermoogle</title>
		<link>http://calgaryskeptics.com/blog/2009/07/29/beware-the-spinal-trap/#comment-10358</link>
		<dc:creator>Ubermoogle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calgaryskeptics.com/blog/?p=261#comment-10358</guid>
		<description>Well I suppose there's the distinction to be made as to which chiropractors are "straight" chiropractic, or those who are the "mixers".

While I don't really have a problem with those who have abandoned the more vitalistic thinking and have moved to a more therapeutic and physiotherapy style of chiropractic, there are still issues with practicing physiotherapy without a license, and the additional treatments and adjustments that can cause blood clots, or tearing of the arteries travelling through the cervical vertebrae. 

The vitalistic stuff is simply not scientifically plausible, and is completely lacking in effectiveness in clinical trials.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I suppose there&#8217;s the distinction to be made as to which chiropractors are &#8220;straight&#8221; chiropractic, or those who are the &#8220;mixers&#8221;.</p>
<p>While I don&#8217;t really have a problem with those who have abandoned the more vitalistic thinking and have moved to a more therapeutic and physiotherapy style of chiropractic, there are still issues with practicing physiotherapy without a license, and the additional treatments and adjustments that can cause blood clots, or tearing of the arteries travelling through the cervical vertebrae. </p>
<p>The vitalistic stuff is simply not scientifically plausible, and is completely lacking in effectiveness in clinical trials.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Beware the Spinal Trap by Provo Chiropractor</title>
		<link>http://calgaryskeptics.com/blog/2009/07/29/beware-the-spinal-trap/#comment-10336</link>
		<dc:creator>Provo Chiropractor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 06:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calgaryskeptics.com/blog/?p=261#comment-10336</guid>
		<description>Ouch. That's pretty hard to believe though. I've never encountered anything like that in all my years of treating people. The treatment may not have been successful for everybody (around 70 - 80% of patients) but I've never had anyone who suffered more after the treatment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ouch. That&#8217;s pretty hard to believe though. I&#8217;ve never encountered anything like that in all my years of treating people. The treatment may not have been successful for everybody (around 70 - 80% of patients) but I&#8217;ve never had anyone who suffered more after the treatment.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Women in Skepticism - My Thoughts by Joanne</title>
		<link>http://calgaryskeptics.com/blog/2009/08/11/women-in-skepticism-my-thoughts/#comment-10263</link>
		<dc:creator>Joanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calgaryskeptics.com/blog/?p=264#comment-10263</guid>
		<description>I know this post is months old, but I'm going to respond anyway.  I just saw the post on the Skeptics in the Pub for Nov 3 on Skepchick.org... so if you're trying to raise awareness with female skeptics in other ways, it worked - I didn't even know there was a Calgary Skeptic's Society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know this post is months old, but I&#8217;m going to respond anyway.  I just saw the post on the Skeptics in the Pub for Nov 3 on Skepchick.org&#8230; so if you&#8217;re trying to raise awareness with female skeptics in other ways, it worked - I didn&#8217;t even know there was a Calgary Skeptic&#8217;s Society.</p>
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